EPISODE SUMMARY
Multi-award-winning writer Chris Melotti shares examples of fuelling your HubSpot engine with quality copy.
Listen and Subscribe to the HubDo Podcast
About our Guest:
Christopher Melotti is a well-established and renowned Australian Messaging Marketing and Copywriting Professional. Christ founded, manages, and is the head Marketing Copywriter of Melotti Media, where he and his team work with a wide range of clients from Insurance, to Real Estate, Marketing, Creative Agency, Web Design, Logistics, HR, Finance and much more. Chris’ goal is not just to write words, but to demonstrate the potential words offer businesses.
Links and offers:
Books: https://www.melottimedia.com.au/books/
Website: https://www.melottimedia.com.au/
Blog: https://www.melottimedia.com.au/blog/
Podcast: https://www.melottimedia.com.au/podcasts/
Connect with Chris Melotti:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christophermelotti/
Chris Melotti on HubDo Marketplace
Visit Chris Melotti on the HubDo Marketplace
Go to the Marketplace Homepage
Direct Transcription of Podcast
Pete: Greetings everyone, a very warm welcome back to another edition of the HubDo podcast where we talk with software vendors, subject matter specialists, and end users who share real stories of how to do more on HubSpot. I'm your host, Pete Nicholls. I'm in Copenhagen in Denmark, and I'm joined today by my friend Christopher Melotti.
Pete: Chris Goodday mate, how are you? Where are you today?
Chris: Hello. How are you going? I'm so honoured to be here. Thank you. I'm going well, How about you, Pete?
Pete: Yeah. Really good. Thank you, Chris. Um, enjoying Copenhagen. And you are in Sydney at the moment.
Chris: Correct. Sydney, Australia. Yes. Uh, the beautiful place we're heading into spring and towards summer.
Pete: Yeah. The opposite way. We're going into the deep, deep dark. Um, so for our listeners, um, my friend Chris, Chris Melotti is the head of Melotti Media. Melotti Media is an award-winning messaging, marketing, and copywriting professional business with headquarters in Australia. I know from working with Chris that you are all about evolving marketing practice, its superior, relevant value, and it's all about words. Yes. All about words. So, um, I'm always blown away by the awards that you pick up for what you do. Most recently, "Copywriting Business of the Year 2022" by the Australian Business Champion. Uh, last year, 2021 National Winner for Marketing Services. And I remember in 2017, uh, the Australian Marketing Institute awarded you Chief Marketing Officer, CMO of the year. So kudos Chris. Uh, we're delighted to have you on the show.
Chris: Thank you.
Pete: Uh, and to include Melotti Media Copywriting on HubDo Marketplace so that people can do more on HubSpot. So welcome to the show. Uh, we have a topic for today where, uh, we're talking to you as a subject matter specialist. The headline for the show is why HubSpot Success only comes with Quality content. So are you unlocking HubSpot's full power? Now, Chris, you and your team work across industries including real estate, logistics, HR, finance, and insurance, and you work with a lot of marketing and creative agencies and web designers. My question is, what problem do these people wanna solve when they start talking to you?
Chris: Yep. Uh, great question. Thank you for the intro. WOW, thank you, Pete. Um, so, okay, a two-part question I think that is, so I, I work with two main clients. There's either direct to the end client or an agency. So when it's with the agency, like, like you said, web developers and, and, and. Uh, marketing content creators and things, usually they come to us and they go, We need someone who's reliable, who understands the HubSpot flywheel engagement method, and who can be trusted to write the content that we need for our strategy, you know, our, to implement our strategy for our own clients.
Chris: Whereas the direct client, usually their problem is, we don't know how to articulate the value that we offer our customers. And so at Melotti Media, we do both of those extremely well for agencies. Um, you know, as part of the HubDo network, we are reliable, and we make sure that we do. We just get it. Um, and where, whereas the end user, it's more like we help them understand their own value and then articulate it in a marketing sense.
Pete: Great answer. Thank you. So, uh, as you've pointed out, we are now entering a bit of a sliding doors moment because we are talking to those people who are listening to this episode and they are from the agency world, Web Designers, and so forth. And, uh, they want reliable, trusted writing assistance and, uh, and also ideally someone who understands HubSpot.
Pete: And then on the end user side articulating value. So we'll, we'll flick between those two, uh, a little bit. Um, so I'd like to know what you are looking for because your goal is not just to write words, but to demonstrate the potential that words offer businesses. So in either of those two contexts, what clues tell you, it's a situation where you can really help and create a lot of value and maybe some red flags of where you think, um, this is not a good fit..
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So well look, look, in terms of HubSpot itself, um, HubSpot I see as an engine and the fuel really is content. And so what I look, the way I look at it is, you know, we've discussed this before, Google's algorithm and Google's trends are moving towards, higher quality content and promoting and, and boosting up higher quality content.
Chris: And so both of those target audiences there, the agency side and the direct to the client side, both need to appreciate the importance of high-quality content and different content, you know, like really specialized content that's, that's not generic.. That's why it's so important, especially if you're using HubSpot, is to make sure that you are powering it with content that is unique, that's got your heart and soul as a brand in it, You know, that isn't generic and that's what it comes down to is, and, and it's, it's a hard thing to do.
Chris: And so a lot of times, um, what happens, like, to answer your question is a lot of agencies will approach us and they will say, We need you because we can't get to the bottom of what's gonna make our clients stand out or we need to produce more than just Wikipedia articles. And so that's what we do at Melotti Media is we do strategy sessions even with this agency. So even if the agency has said, and this is what happens, often, the agency will say; We've already developed the strategy. We've got what we want this brand to say, but we just can't crack the individual pieces. We can't seem to, um, to get that whole holistic sense, or even if they've got that, they'll say; We can't find a copywriter that just can take what we've said and run with it and really execute cleanly.
Chris: And so that's, that's probably the way, the best of the value that we offer. For those kinds of agency worlds. As for the direct-to-client side, um, a lot of it comes down to what triggers me is when, um, when people often will say, Oh, I just wish we had the right messages to get that right response and engage people and, and like attract the right clients. And right now it seems like we're talking to everyone, always sounds exactly like our competitors. And so that's where we can really get in there and sort of really dive in and sort of go, what, what makes your brand different? Like, why do you drive this purpose? And that's what we specialize in.
Pete: That's a really good, uh, tie into HubSpot's flywheel, Chris, because you have the model of, uh, attract, engage, and delight. And so it sounds like whether it's an agency or end user, the ability to attract is important and you've touched on some aspects of where Google is changing. Uh, the, that we need to take that into account to become visible, uh, but to stand out, so an agency's client to stand out or for the client themselves to get the messaging right, to stand out and attract the right target audience. And you also mentioned that in some cases, uh, they've worked out their messaging, but they need somebody who can really run with that, stay on brand and be reliable. What is a red flag to you of where this is probably not gonna go so well?
Chris: Uh, a red flag would be that they, that a client doesn't see copywriting as an investment. They see it as a cost. That's a big red flag. Um, and the reason why is because, I mean, we had this only a few weeks ago where I was talking to, um, he, he's a good example. So he was a lawyer. And he was building his new website out and the, and as, uh, he was very high up in, in Australia as a lawyer, and he had, and he had strong opinions on what he wanted to say, which is perfectly fine. That's great. Right? Where, where we did not connect and where a red flag happened was that he said, Chris, I, I'm okay with writing. I'm good at writing. And I said, Fantastic. And he said I can whip up 30 pages in a day. And I said, But that's exactly the problem. I said, You, you, first of all, you know your industry and your practice back to front, left to right, but you are not speaking to your client in that way.
Chris: You're pulling out your thoughts as a lawyer to probably another. And I said, What I do is I take all of that knowledge and I put it in a marketing sense. I put a marketing screen over it. And, unfortunately, he didn't get that. And so what happened was he said, I can write and I can write and I can write. And I said, But what you need is a copywriter to refine that messaging and to direct it. And I see a lot of clients do this is, and, and I probably, everyone listening is probably thinking this is. In our industries, whatever we are, how big we are, or small, it doesn't matter, what happens is we have a lot of assumed knowledge because we live and breathe what we do every single day, whereas your customers don't.
Chris: If you think about your customer, they probably think about you and your brand and even your service or your industry, probably about 5% of their time and if that, And so what happens is; we sometimes can get tempted as a brand to write with all this assumed knowledge thinking that people think about us all the time.
Chris: Chances are they jump on your website, scan through something and go, This isn't relevant to me. I don't get it, and they leave. And then the one that picks up the sale is the person that has taken the time to go, what do my customers actually want? And so what happened is that the lawyer actually had a lot of trouble and has come back to us to help us refine because he said, No, no, I can do it. I can do it. And off he went and came back and said, Yes, I, I can't refine this messaging. Like my website designer is pulling out her hair because she can't get me to articulate something on a homepage. I can't articulate what my services are in a paragraph. I go on and on and on and people don't understand. And so, yes, so a copywriter. The red flag would be if you don't fully understand how a copywriter isn't just about writing pretty or it isn't about writing a lot, it's about writing a refined message that's gonna resonate with a particular audience. And so that's, that's a red flag, is that investment.
Chris: Um, the other red flag would probably be that, um, they think all copywriters are the same, I would probably say is another one where they say, Oh, like, um, that other copywriter from, from, from that Fivr or one of those platforms is the same as someone that's got 15 years of marketing experience. And so as a result, what happens is they get, they, they end up comparing costs rather than quality. And that's a really big thing.
Pete: Those are great examples where the lawyer was speaking lawyer speak, by the sound of that. 30 pages and, uh, it was 30 pages that, uh, his target client didn't want to read.
Chris: A hundred percent didn't wanna read. And, and that's the thing, is it, it happens a lot. It's, it's, it's easy to think, like writing is, Writing is writing, but it's not, It's like writing poetry is different to writing marketing copy, which is different to writing journalism's, you know, items like, it's, it's very different.
Pete: Yeah. You look at the HubSpot flywheel that, uh, attract, engage and delight and, um, maybe that simplifies it, uh, too much in, well we just need to throw content at those different roles. But on the HubSpot machine, there are blogs to be written. They're attractive to Google to get the rankings and get the eyeballs of and engage people as they come through. But if you look at the whole HubSpot machine, you have sales flows that need to be written. So there's this sales copy that needs to go into HubSpot. There are a whole lot of, uh, interactive email exchanges, so there are places to put copy all through. What examples come to mind, cuz those were great, the red flag ones, which also tell us what the green flags are. Is that, uh, somebody who needs help getting their message refined and then being reliable to help to work with them on that? What other examples come to mind then of where it has worked really well, Chris, where you feel like we've added and we are adding a lot of value here?
Chris: Oh, look, I'm, I'm glad you asked this one, 'cause this is every day. Um, and so, so like people underestimate how diverse copywriting truly is. And, you know what, using HubSpot does give you a leg up in terms of listing the listeners now because HubSpot prompts you on the number of different types of content that you need to create.
Chris: And, so as a copywriting agency, we often provide those suggestions. Like sometimes a client will naturally say, I need a blog, and we'll say, actually, this would be better as a video or an animation. And so, And what, And that's what we do. I mean, this happens every single day. Uh, we, we got asked for some job ads from a, from a gym mm-hmm and the gym said, uh, said do us some, some ads for, for some personal trainers. And what we actually found is I said, You know what? You are, you are a fun, energetic guy and your brand is that and you. And he said I wanna attract the best of the best personal trainers. And so we wrote him a video script and it was literally, um, him saying, Welcome to your new workplace. And he was showing them around the gym. And that's the script I wrote and had fast parts and slow parts and, and it was a really interactive sort of video piece of content. That got him hundreds of, of applicants. Right. And, and I, I spoke to him recently and he said he's still got the two that he chose. He's still got those personal trainers with him from that. And so this is what it comes down to is the green flags are that it doesn't have to be a default blog or article. What it could be is potentially, we've done stuff with HubSpot, um, and through HubDo we've done, HubSpot clients where we've done a quiz.
Chris: HubSpot loves those interactive quizzes and so we've written entirely like, um, quizzes with that has had a question to go to the answer, and then that has led them to a blog. That is always a really good green flag for us because it means that it's not writing for writing's sake. We're not trying to create content for content's sake, which is a very easy trap to get into today.
Chris: You know, content marketing has been around now for 10, 12 years. Uh, you know, the trend of it. And I feel people go, Oh, just throw more blogs at it. And that's not the answer. The answer is what is, what is that juicy piece of a topic that's going to get you noticed by the right people? And how can we use that messaging across our website? So if we've got consistency, how can we put that as a quiz or, or a, or a video or, or a podcast or, or something like a press release or a key opinion leadership piece out about us page, um, at downloadable. All of those kinds of great things. When you start to think about that, you actually see the potential of copywriting a copywriter offers you because you can see that content is such a big umbrella, and if you can tap into all of those parts, then you can actually tap into all of those channels and that's where you get that omnichannel kind of presence, which HubSpot love so much as well.
Pete: There are so many channels now out there and, and the video, the, the gym owner that you mentioned, I think is a, a great example with his recruiting video. If you think that he would've had to pay a recruiting agency to find those people that his video found, cuz you mentioned that copywriting is an investment. So if you think about the investment that he made there in his video versus what he might have had to pay a recruiting agency to go and find those people.
Pete: How do you think those costs might compare?
Chris: Yeah. Oh, um, a hundred percent. Like, so he would've had to pay and he was going to pay, um, I think he was gonna pay a couple of thousand of Australian dollars for, for a recruitment agency. And then he had to do his own seek ad. And then he had, then you also pay a commission fee when they find those people. All he paid was my fee for a script, which was a couple of hundred dollars. And then he did, um, uh, and then he, uh, did a, he boosted the ad on Facebook. So I think, I think all up, he probably spent, I don't know, maybe a thousand just over Australian dollars. And, he got two people, two personal trainers that were high caliber and he was able to choose from like quite a lot of applicants.
Chris: So it wasn't like he was scraped the barrel. He had, he had like 50 applicants in their first couple of days and he was able to find the right match for him. Fantastic. And so that's when and when you start to open your mind to what content actually can do, that's when you start to get that, you know, whether it's your clients yourself or it's your business. When you start to look at copywriting as an investment and you go, Where can I leverage copywriting to boost my marketing is when you get the best results.
Pete: That quiz that you mentioned, Chris, what examples are quizzes that you've seen go really well?
Chris: Yep, so we did this for, um, for a brand. I don't want, I mean I can mention names, but I, if you're allowed to privacy. Uh, it's public. Um, so we did, let's just skip, We did it for an Australian hub, uh, HubSpot agency. Mm-hmm. . Um, and we did it for one of their big clients. So they brought me on board to help them with all, like, launching a complete rebrand of a medical device. And so what we did was they, they come up with the strategy of, they were like, Let's do a quiz. And it was like a, um, a, a, a health test. And it was a fascinating project because what it did was it stopped it from being the copy and the content from being preachy to interactive. And that is a huge thing. I, I would highly suggest that to every listener interactive content is always a great thing.
Chris: And so what we did was we came up with all these questions that would lead people to certain calls to action. So if they got a low score, then it would say send them to, um, to like, you know, like if they weren't at risk for this particular condition, what it would do is send 'em to, uh, some blogs that I'd written. You know, I think we launched with 30 blogs and articles. Highly tailored and highly specific. Then we had, as their score started to get up and up and up, it was, book an appointment with one of our specialists, and it had all these different rankings. So what it did was it allowed people, and they actually found through HubSpot, they found that people were happy to answer 22 questions before they jumped.
Chris: So we didn't put anywhere near 22 questions, but that was interesting research that we found. And so we did this on HubSpot with that, um, application and with that agency, and it was extremely successful. And it's still on that website today. I'm very proud of that work, um, because I know how much, like how much com, like how many conversions it earns, um, that particular client because it's so interactive, it's so interesting, and it's the first thing that they see on that website page.
Pete: What stands out for me, uh, of how different the examples are that you're sharing, is that a video was a fantastic recruiting tool. A quiz was a fantastic customer engagement and qualification tool, and yet I find often the content conversations are people are kind of defaulted into thinking it's all gonna be about writing blogs or it's gonna be writing webpage copy. Whereas, uh, there's so many different types of content and therefore, I imagine. Very different types of content writers. If you look at the different skills that are employed. Chris, how do you, because you've grown a team under your stewardship, I think it was, uh, was just you, when we first started working together.
Chris: Um, it, it was, can you believe how far it's come now? We've got 10.
Pete: So what skills do you look for? What are some of the differences between the different types of copywriters?
Chris: So, look, I, I'm in two minds about this. One is, uh, I'm, I'm very anti-nicheing. And what I mean by that is with, with copywriting, I find that we've never, as an agency, as a copyright agency, we've never had a problem literally writing one day for a cryptocurrency. Uh, uh, we did this for, for a cryptocurrency. Um, a tax agency in Australia, we wrote their entire website and we had to learn cryptocurrency very, very fast, um, which was fantastic. And, they were thrilled with the result. And it's one of the, my most favorite websites I've written, um, was that, so we've got, uh, but then we've done, then the next day we'll be writing for HR agency and then we'll be writing for a skincare company.
Chris: So what I mean by that, I don't like to niche in terms of industry because it, I feel if you ask the right questions from the agency or the client, you will get what you need and the transferable skills of copywriting can apply. So in the end, the essence of copywriting is, Who's my audience? What's their pain point and why does this client solution solve that?
Chris: And if you can then use words to articulate and bridge that gap, you can do it. And so that's what the copywriting skill really comes down to. So to answer your question I'm not a, you don't need to niche in terms of your copywriting. Uh, if you are a marketing copywriter, you can do diverse industries, and that's what we do.
Chris: Mm-hmm. . Um, but there are different types of writers. So I mean, like, that journalistic writing tends to be not a marketing writer. So a journalistic writer is one that I like to write articles that are unswayed, they're un, they're their own opinions or their own take on or, uh, uh, experience with a particular thing. So they will say, Here's what happened, Right? Whereas a copywriter is more about like I said, who's the audience? What are they trying to achieve? What are their pain points and how can we, um, articulate the message that's gonna identify what needs to be said? And so, and then there's of course, the fantasy writers and the fiction writers, and that's another thing.
Chris: So it's very important that, when you're speaking to a copywriter, you're speaking to a marketing professional and a marketing specialist that, that is looking at your business, your goals and how do we get words there to get there.
Pete: Fantastic. Uh, Chris, it's been uh, a real eye opener actually, just looking into some of those examples cuz it's a good reminder to me of as well around that flywheel of how the different types of channels, you mentioned omnichannel. So being video, and quizzes, there are so many different forms, HubSpot is a machine that can pull in a lot of content as you've mentioned, it's the engine and the content is the fuel. So I guess the key takeaways for me from this is, uh, really that there are different aspects of content and therefore there are also differences in writers.
Pete: And, uh, that if you get this right, it's an investment. It's not a cost, because it has a genuine impact on the business. Where, uh, is the best place for people to reach you, Chris, if they wanna make contact, Is it on LinkedIn? What's your preference?
Chris: Yeah. Um, LinkedIn, through HubDo or my website, multimedia.com au. Um, we work all over, um, all over the world. We work with, I mean, through HubDo we work with a lot of different international clients, um, and, and we can help with all of that. Don't hesitate to reach out and ask and say, Look, this is my client's project. Can you help me? What's your pricing? What's your scope? And vice versa if you're the end user business don't be afraid to say, Look, Chris, I usually do my own writing, but I'm starting to get grower a little bit and I'm trying to, I'm getting a little bit more advanced and I'm losing touch with my brand. I don't know how to express myself, or I don't have the time, or I'm stretched thin. Can you help? And it's those engagement conversations that initial discussion is a really good way to sort of listening to what I have to say and listen to, you know, and I listen to what you have to say and see if there's a happy medium in between.
Pete: That's excellent. So thank you for sharing that and also for sharing the links. I'll put these in the show notes cuz you have a selection of books that people can just access and download from your site. Yeah, you have the Malo Media campus as well. That's all going in so uh, I'll share those in the show notes. Chris, been an absolute pleasure talking with you today, people can reach out to you on LinkedIn. So thanks for coming to the show.
Chris: Thank you so much, Pete. Really appreciate.
Pete: For our listeners, you can find more information about Chris Melotti and Melotti Media on HubDo Marketplace. Just go to marketplace.hubdo.com or click the link in the show notes and send us your questions so that Chris and I can help you do more on HubSpot.
Your host Pete Nicholls is the Founder of HubDo, HubSpot Certified Trainer and Foundation Certified in Bidding and Proposals by the APMP.
Connect with Pete at:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/penichol/
Email: pete@hubdo.com
Meet: www.bookachatwithpete.com
For questions about this episode, email podcast@hubdo.com
The HubDo Podcast is a production of HubDo ApS Denmark.
All rights reserved.